|
 Originally
posted in March 2002
Edited slightly
for the sake of clarity.
Spoiler
Alert! Do not read this if you have not finished Defender.
hautdesert:
So I was thinking profound Foreigner
thoughts over the weekend, wondering what great stuff to read I'd find
when I got back. And this occurred to me.
It's probably not outrageous to say
that Bren's career choice was likely influenced by a desire to get away
from his mother. And that Barb is disfunctional enough to choose a man
who could never, ever really be there for her, tell him that was okay,
and then flake out right at the moment he was least accessible. Certainly
his mother seems to push her sons away while at the same time demanding
that they be with her whenever she wants them (which seems chiefly to be
when they can't be there).
So I was thinking about this, when
I thought, I wonder how much of Bren's comfort with atevi is helped by
the fact that he knows they can't ever love him? The people who love him
seem to be pretty destructive of the people they love, or else involved
themselves in difficult relationships and demanding Bren solve their problems
(like Toby) or have even abandoned him (Bren's father--I'm making a big
assumption here, but I don't think it's completely unreasonable). Imagine
how much of a relief it must be to know that the people you live with will
never do that to you. He must feel very conflicted about love--he'd want
it, everyone does. But then when he gets it it's painful and messes up
his life.
But the atevi are entirely safe on
that score, and there's a degree to which his agonizing about their never
liking or loving him has the flavor of his mother, to my eyes. His mother
can't accept that her sons can only love her as they are and as they can--she
keeps insisting that they love her on her terms.
Just a thought.
WereOtter:
"I wonder how much of Bren's
comfort with atevi is helped by the fact that he knows they can't ever
love him?"
I don't think Bren is attracted to
Jago because he is afraid to love a "real" woman.
Bren simply doesn't have the opportunities
that he would need to find, woo and have a relationship with the "right"
human woman. Bren sometimes does not visit Mospheria for months or years,
and when he does, it's just for a few days. On the other hand, Bren and
Jago have been through a lot together. Jago's always there. Jago goes where
he goes. And what he has with Jago is both unique and special.
I suppose that theoretically, Bren
could have dated women on the station during the time between Precursor
and Defender. He could choose between Phoenix crew or Mospheiran workers.
But the impression that I get from other Cherryh books is that it is very
unusual for a ship crew-woman to consider living her ship. And I doubt
that Bren would find much attraction to a woman who would be traumatized
by a visit to a planet and who knows even less about the atevi than a Mospheiran
woman would.
Maybe there are prospects among the
Mospheiran stations workers, translators like Kate Shugart, or a scientist.
But it would mean possibly jeopardizing his relationship with Jago, for
a human relationship that might not work out anyway. I don't think that
Bren's risk/benefit analysis would be optimistic.
hautdesert:
Quote:
I
don't think Bren is attracted to Jago because he is afraid to love a "real"
woman.
That's not really what I was saying.
I think if he were to choose a human woman as a partner, she would have
to demonstrate the same emotional non-threat as Jago does. But it makes
perfect sense, just in general terms, that he would be attracted to someone
he's with a lot and can develop a close attachment to, perfect sense that
he would love someone who is with him and works closely with him. And at
this point he's deeply involved with Jago and unlikely to look anywhere
else, and I think the relationship is good for him.
And I don't think he's afraid to
love. I'm just wondering if he's subconsciously uneasy about being loved,
and wondering if that's part of what makes him able to live in atevi society
as well as he does, and at least part of the attraction to Jago. The same
attraction would exist in a human woman who could demonstrate that she
wouldn't be like Bren's relatives. But, as you point out, he has very little
access to human women who would be remotely suitable partners.
Susan:
No, I think Haut is really on to
something important here.
Consider the type of human personality
that really succeeds - as Bren has done about as much as a human could
- at being at home among the atevi in general, and yet functional as a
human. The person would have to have an unusual amount of comfort with
giving very little expression to his feelings and an unusual amount of
comfort with relationships (sexual and otherwise) that lack intimacy. Bren,
not being deeply impaired as a human, doesn't feel complete comfort with
either and, in fact, suffers to a certain degree with both. That's a good
sign, for a human.
But he is sufficiently neurotic (a
label that doesn't say much, but I can't think of a better one right here)
to find his circumstances and relationships among the atevi bearable, and
even satisfying. The atevi are giving him almost enough.
Another thought - consider the enormous
amount of self-control it takes for Bren, as a human, to be fluent in Ragi
and to comport himself in a polite manner among the atevi. Being able to
exercise that kind of iron control presumably comes with a price.
I'm at work, and can't write at greater
length here, but I think Haut has started a great topic.
Ansikalden:
Bren can love.
We only get to see Bren in one crisis
or another, when he is likely to be most negatively analytical of himself
and his relationships with everyone; humans and atevi, close family/friends/associates
and casual acquaintances. He is in panic mode, fearing the slightest misinterpretation
of atevi will be fatal and suspecting that his inborn human empathy will
lead him to make mistakes that will break the peace. He is just quite naturally
depressed and doubting everything, simply questioning the meaning of life.
In between – I think he has a healthy
mind and emotional life and loves (because there is no way to escape it
if you aren’t a psychopath) as humans do – despite his difficult affection-demanding
relatives (really, who haven’t got some of those?), despite the confusion
of thinking and dreaming in Ragi...
Heritage
Partier:
Ansikalden brings up a good point:
we only see Bren during times of high stress. And while we would all enjoy
reading about Bren reading the phone book, the publishers don't agree.
Perhaps the space station is the
best thing that has happened to Bren emotionally in a long time. Consider,
Bren gets regular, in person contact with other humans in addition to his
regular atevi associates, especially the Mospheira-born humans. The psychological
set of these humans is much more flexible than the "ordinary" Mospheirans
and more flexible than most of the ship-born. These contacts offer potential
new friendships (perhaps even more) without the baggage of his fraught-filled
family relationships. He has new people to gauge his humanity against and
come out feeling fine. Even Ginny Kroger is a friend now.
Concurrently, his atevi personna
is thriving: the household is strong and devoted, no one has filed Intent
lately, and his closest associates are tied ever more strongly to him,
be it man'chi or love. Most interesting, his relationship with Jago is
an anchor. Even with possible temptation appearing on station and during
his trips to the island, Bren appears committed to his love of Jago and
her response.
Even with Mum and Toby and Barb pushing
the same old emotional buttons in PRECURSOR, Bren is less fragile than
he was earlier and has a stronger emotional base among humans and atevi
to keep his sanity.
hautdesert:
HP, I do agree that the station
is good for him, for all the reasons you cited. In fact, I think his being
with the atevi was and has been good for him all around. It's given him
a source of unequivocal support, a way to be with other people and love
them and accept what they give him without feeling threatened by it, and
he's learned a lot from this. This would be one situation where running
away from his family would be the productive thing to do, and he did it.
I also think his having to come to terms with atevi never loving or liking
has really matured his idea of love and relationships in general. Having
grown a good deal, with the help of his household's devotion and his own
experiences, he's in a better position now to deal emotionally with humans.
Ansi, I'm not trying to say he's
unhealthy or crazy or dysfunctional. You're right--everyone's family is
nuts, really, and everyone has some sort of emotional baggage that they
carry that affects things. I'm just pondering the specific nature of Bren's.
In fact, like I said, I think he's made very healthy choices--get away
from the problem, try to find a way to relate to others that isn't destructive,
that won't injure him.
Quote:
Concurrently,
his atevi personna is thriving: the household is strong and devoted, no
one has filed Intent lately, and his closest associates are tied ever more
strongly to him, be it man'chi or love. Most interesting, his relationship
with Jago is an anchor. Even with possible temptation appearing on station
and during his trips to the island, Bren appears committed to his love
of Jago and her response.
Even with Mum and Toby and Barb pushing
the same old emotional buttons in PRECURSOR, Bren is less fragile than
he was earlier and has a stronger emotional base among humans and atevi
to keep his sanity.
I completely agree with you here. And
I think his being less fragile is directly attributable to his being with
atevi--developing relationships that don't threaten him, with people who
are truly devoted to him and don't play emotional games with him, and whose
different emotional makeup has forced him to question what it means to
love someone. The whole experience has been stabilizing and maturing for
him. Contrast him with Toby, who even though he fled to the North Shore
is still pretty enmeshed with his mother (not like Bren's completely free--you're
never completely free from your mother....) and hasn't learned any of the
emotional lessons Bren has. Bren's atevi household have given him that
stable base. And his love for Jago, who can't love him back, has taught
him something about the unselfish part of love, about respecting the other
person and loving them as they are, not as you would wish them to be, something
his mother certainly didn't convey to him, something Barb seems to know
nothing about.
Susan:
Quote:
Concurrently,
his atevi personna is thriving: the household is strong and devoted, no
one has filed Intent lately, and his closest associates are tied ever more
strongly to him, be it man'chi or love. Most interesting, his relationship
with Jago is an anchor. Even with possible temptation appearing on station
and during his trips to the island, Bren appears committed to his love
of Jago and her response.
- and-
Quote:
And
I think his being less fragile is directly attributable to his being with
atevi--developing relationships that don't threaten him, with people who
are truly devoted to him and don't play emotional games with him, and whose
different emotional makeup has forced him to question what it means to
love someone. The whole experience has been stabilizing and maturing for
him.
I agree with both quotations. I lean
towards Haut's view of Bren, but I take it further. The fact that Bren
has an "atevi persona" at all is noteworthy - most humans could never reach
the point of developing an atevi self, let alone a thriving one with atevi
relationships that satisfy him. And many or most humans would become more
fragile, not less fragile, by being with atevi.
The fact that he can maintain a relationship
with Jago that anchors him is also noteworthy. So many human men would
feel that they were receiving insufficient nurturing, cuddling and warmth.
But Bren is happy with what Jago can give.
There is a great deal of distance
and reticence in their relationship, of necessity, both because they are
so different, and because of atevi custom. Bren has adjusted to this degree
of distance and reticence by Persuader, and finds it comfortable.
I hope that relieved of the unhealthy
pressures that his mother and Barb placed on him, Bren might mature to
accept a human version of intimacy in a love relationship with a human
woman, but I guess I don't think it likely. I keep coming back to the feeling
that he wouldn't be doing so well with Jago if he were the kind of person
who would do well with a human romantic partnership. People grow, but do
they change that fundamentally?
Bren has the right strengths for
the situation he has found himself in, but I don't know if he would have
the right strengths for a cozy suburban home with a wife, two kids, a dog
and a lawnmower. Indeed Bren can love, and does love, the special atevi
in his life, especially Jago, Banichi and Ilisidi. That doesn't mean that
he can love a human wife - and be loved by a human wife - with as much
success.
I don't mean that there is necessarily
something "wrong" or something "unhealthy" about Bren, compared to other
people -but he has some unusual qualities that seem to me to be fundamental
to the person he is.
Heritage
Partier:
One of a kind, an aside to Bren
can love.
This time around in my re-reading
of the FOREIGNER books I've been keeping an eye out for mention of the
training of the paidhi. Mospheira is careful in its training of paidhiin
as the ship is in deciding to create Taylor's Children. Atevi studies graduates
can happen any year, but candidates for the position of paidhi seem concentrated
in one graduating class, probably timed to the retirement age of the previous
paidhi. Bren and Deana and probably other agemates went through the candidacy
process, but no more substantially mature candidates are mentioned. Plus
Bren muses that, were he to leave his position before retirement age, Deana
would be his designated replacement (although she'd probably be so ensconced
in her Mospheiran life that she'd demur at that hypothetical time), not
a more recent graduate of atevi studies.
So far my gleanings bring the suppositions
that Bren started his training in atevi studies towards the awarding of
paidhi rank at age 12, an impressionable age, and that a lot of that training
was was negative. You will NOT expect atevi to like you, you will NOT be
friends with atevi, you will NOT display emotion in front of atevi, you
will NOT find your worldview important... Who knows what Bren would be
like if he hadn't undergone paidhi training in addition to his family dynamics?
Bren is one of a kind, at least in
his generation, and this was acknowledged by the Committee that chose him
over his rival with better political connections in a society where nepotism
ruled politics. His ability to use linguistic nuances was simply too great.
(And until CJC lets us know who Bren's father is and what his position
in Mospheira is, we won't know if Bren had even a tad of political sympathy
regarding his origins.) |
